Puppy See, Puppy Do-Do

On March 31st, nominations for both the 2016 Hugo Awards and the 1941 Retro Hugo Awards will close.

Sad Puppies IV attempted to turn their slate into a “recommendation” list this year by opening up suggestions on a dedicated page (those participating made their suggestions in the comments) and then offering to whittle the list down to ten or so finalist recommendations, that puppies were then encouraged to consider for their ballots.

Kate Paulk recently closed the comments (at the beginning of March) so that they could be compiled and a final list composed.

It’s a little late in the game, especially considering that nominators are kinda expected to read and be familiar with works they’re going to recommend (but that isn’t necessarily an impediment for organized voting), so we’ve decided to help them out a bit and give them a hand up.

We started with one of the most visible categories – Best Novel. The following list contains all of the individual works mentioned in the comments. We did not verify eligibility (although most, if not all of the works seems to meet that criteria). When judging whether or not someone recommended something, we took “Plus 1” and “Me Too” to count for a “vote”. If someone talked about a work but didn’t expressly indicate that it was something they were going to nominate, we didn’t count it.

If a “top ten” is going to be compiled, it’s pretty obvious from the counts below what we should see on the Sad Puppy IV Slate. It will be interesting to see how the final list compares.

Of particular note is Honor At Stake by Declan Finn. He wasn’t shy at all about recommending his own work and apparently working the room works! Honor came in at #2. Funny how the same thing that was done to the Hugos last year popped up in SPIV, huh?

There were some 356 comments over all.  Patterns are sometimes obvious:  whenever someone mentioned a previously unmentioned work, it was usually followed by a handful of “me too” comments.

Maybe there’s a reason this compiling has waited so long.  Maybe (off-chance), Kate decided that if it came in too late for the majority of works to be read, the claim could be made that SPIV didn’t really influence anything.  Maybe.

The process was relatively straight-forward:  individual works were added to a list and then each individual mention of a work that met the above criteria was counted as a vote.

There was a lot of discussion of nominating series; these were included.

I don’t understand the need to compile a top ten:  we’ve already got the “recommended reads” part done.

Nevertheless, here it is.  It will be interesting to what, if anything makes it to the final ballot.

1 Somewither Wright 23
2 Honor At Stake Finn 22
3 Aeronaut’s Windlass, the Butcher 19
4 Uprooted Novik 19
5 Long Time Until Now, A Williamson 16
6 Seveneves Stephenson 15
7 Nethereal Neimeier 13
8 Son of the Black Sword, the Correia 11
9 Fifth Season, the Jemsin 8
10 Strands of Sorrow Ringo 8
11 Ancillary Mercy Leckie 7
12 Just City, the Walton 7
13 Desert and the Blade, the Stirling 6
14 Saturn Run Sandford/Ctein 6
15 Aurora Robinson 5
16 Devil’s Only Friend, the Wells 5
17 Golden Son Brown 5
18 Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality Yudlowsky 5
19 Raising Caine Gannon 5
20 Dark Tide Rising Series Ringo 4
21 Discworld Series Pratchett 4
22 Firefight Sanderson 4
23 Hell’s Foundation Quiver Weber 4
24 Net of Dawn and Bones, A Chancy 4
25 Ronin Games Harmon 4
26 Sorcerer to the Crown Cho 4
27 1636: The Cardinal Virtues Flint/Hunt 3
28 Black Wolves Elliott 3
29 Blackbird Boykin 3
30 Dark Forest, the Liu 3
31 Fool’s Quest Hobb 3
32 Nemesis Games Corey 3
33 Shepherd’s Crown, the Pratchett 3
34 Torchship Gallagher 3
35 Ancillary Sword Leckie 2
36 Angels of Attack Kloos 2
37 Anniversary Day Saga Rusch 2
38 Archangel Reed 2
39 Autumn Republic, the McClellan 2
40 Black Fleet Trilogy Dalzelle 2
41 Bones and All De Angelis 2
42 Call To Arms, A Zahn/Pope/Weber 2
43 Children of Time Tchaikovsky 2
44 Collisions of the Damned Young 2
45 Darker Shade of Magic, A Schwab 2
46 Distopia Kroese 2
47 Dragon Thief Swann 2
48 Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits Wong 2
49 Foxglove Summer Aaronovitch 2
50 Her Brother’s Keeper Kupari 2
51 House of Shattered Wings, the de Bodard 2
52 Library at Mount Char, the Hawkins 2
53 Mechanical, the Tregellis 2
54 Traitor Baru Cormorant, the Dickinson 2
55 Vermillion Tanzer 2
56 Werewolf Cop Klavan 2
57 A Succession of Bad Days Saunders 1
58 Alex Crow, the Smith 1
59 Alice Henry 1
60 Architect of Aeons Wright 1
61 Armada Kline 1
62 Ashes Born Lowell 1
63 Awesome, the Darrows 1
64 Book of Lost Doors, the Burnett 1
65 Borrowed Man, A Wolfe 1
66 Buried Giant, the Ishiguro 1
67 Byrony and Roses Kingfisher 1
68 Castaway Planet Spoor/Flint 1
69 Cat at Bay, A Boykin 1
70 Chaplewood Priest 1
71 Cinder Spires, the Butcher 1
72 Clockwork Lives Anderson 1
73 Culmanic Parts Sutcliffe 1
74 Cunning Blood Duntemann 1
75 Dark Intelligence Asher 1
76 Dark Orbit Gilman 1
77 Dinosaur Lords Milan 1
78 Dread Wyrm, the Cameron 1
79 Echopes of Apollo Thompson 1
80 Edge of Dark Cooper 1
81 Flex Steinmetz 1
82 Gatefather Card 1
83 Gentleman Joe and the Red Queen Bujold 1
84 Grace of Kings Liu 1
85 Greek Key Spangler 1
86 Half a War Abercrombie 1
87 Hidden Masters of Marandur and the Assassins of Altis Campbell 1
88 Illuminae Kaufman 1
89 Invisiblew Library, the Cogman 1
90 Karen Memory Bear 1
91 Knight’s Shadow de Castelle 1
92 Less Than Hero Browne 1
93 Liar’s Key, the Lawrence 1
94 Last Song Before Night Myer1 1
95 Life and Death Meyer 1
96 Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet Chambers 1
97 Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Leviathan Campbell 1
98 Mind Over All Fabian 1
99 Morte Repino 1
100 Oncoming Storm, the Nuttall 1
101 One Year After Forstchen 1
102 Oracle West 1
103 Originator Shepherd 1
104 Pact Wildbow 1
105 Philosopher Kings, the Walton 1
106 Predator One Mayberry 1
107 Providence of Fire, the Staveley 1
108 Radiance Valente 1
109 Radiomen Lerman 1
110 Retrieval Artist series Rusch 1
111 Rising, the Tregillis 1
112 Root of Unity Huang 1
113 Saint Odd Koontz 1
114 Sceptre of Morgulan, the Ryan 1
115 Shadows of Self Sanderson 1
116 Shrivers: The Substrate War 3 Kinnison 1
117 Signal to Noise Moreno-Garcia 1
118 Skull of Oghren Vainio 1
119 Skull Throne, the Brett 1
120 Sousmission Houlledeq 1
121 Straits of Hell Anderson 1
122 Sword of Arelion Green 1
123 Twice and Future Caeser: A Novel of the USS Merrimack Meluch 1
124 Vorrh, the Catling 1
125 War Dogs Bear 1
126 Watchmaker of Filigree Street, the Pulley 1
127 Water Knife, the Bacigalupi 1
128 Welcome to Night Vale Cranor/Fink 1
129 Whispering Swarm, the Moorcock 1
130 Wolf by Wolf Graudin 1
131 Yaqteenya, the Old World Bahjatt 1
132 Zero World Hough 1

 

 

TITLE AUTHOR(S) NOMINATIONS
1636: The Cardinal Virtues Flint/Hunt 3
A Succession of Bad Days Saunders 1
Aeronaut’s Windlass, the Butcher 19
Alex Crow, the Smith 1
Alice Henry 1
Ancillary Mercy Leckie 7
Ancillary Sword Leckie 2
Angels of Attack Kloos 2
Anniversary Day Saga Rusch 2
Archangel Reed 2
Architect of Aeons Wright 1
Armada Kline 1
Ashes Born Lowell 1
Aurora Robinson 5
Autumn Republic, the McClellan 2
Awesome, the Darrows 1
Black Fleet Trilogy Dalzelle 2
Black Wolves Elliott 3
Blackbird Boykin 3
Bones and All De Angelis 2
Book of Lost Doors, the Burnett 1
Borrowed Man, A Wolfe 1
Buried Giant, the Ishiguro 1
Byrony and Roses Kingfisher 1
Call To Arms, A Zahn/Pope/Weber 2
Castaway Planet Spoor/Flint 1
Cat at Bay, A Boykin 1
Chaplewood Priest 1
Children of Time Tchaikovsky 2
Cinder Spires, the Butcher 1
Clockwork Lives Anderson 1
Collisions of the Damned Young 2
Culmanic Parts Sutcliffe 1
Cunning Blood Duntemann 1
Dark Forest, the Liu 3
Dark Intelligence Asher 1
Dark Orbit Gilman 1
Dark Tide Rising Series Ringo 4
Darker Shade of Magic, A Schwab 2
Desert and the Blade, the Stirling 6
Devil’s Only Friend, the Wells 5
Dinosaur Lords Milan 1
Discworld Series Pratchett 4
Distopia Kroese 2
Dragon Thief Swann 2
Dread Wyrm, the Cameron 1
Echopes of Apollo Thompson 1
Edge of Dark Cooper 1
Fifth Season, the Jemsin 8
Firefight Sanderson 4
Flex Steinmetz 1
Fool’s Quest Hobb 3
Foxglove Summer Aaronovitch 2
Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits Wong 2
Gatefather Card 1
Gentleman Joe and the Red Queen Bujold 1
Golden Son Brown 5
Grace of Kings Liu 1
Greek Key Spangler 1
Half a War Abercrombie 1
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality Yudlowsky 5
Hell’s Foundation Quiver Weber 4
Her Brother’s Keeper Kupari 2
Hidden Masters of Marandur and the Assassins of Altis Campbell 1
Honor At Stake Finn 22
House of Shattered Wings, the de Bodard 2
Illuminae Kaufman 1
Invisiblew Library, the Cogman 1
Just City, the Walton 7
Karen Memory Bear 1
Knight’s Shadow de Castelle 1
Last Song Before Night Myer1 1
Less Than Hero Browne 1
Liar’s Key, the Lawrence 1
Library at Mount Char, the Hawkins 2
Life and Death Meyer 1
Long Time Until Now, A Williamson 16
Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet Chambers 1
Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Leviathan Campbell 1
Mechanical, the Tregellis 2
Mind Over All Fabian 1
Morte Repino 1
Nemesis Games Corey 3
Net of Dawn and Bones, A Chancy 4
Nethereal Neimeier 13
Oncoming Storm, the Nuttall 1
One Year After Forstchen 1
Oracle West 1
Originator Shepherd 1
Pact Wildbow 1
Philosopher Kings, the Walton 1
Predator One Mayberry 1
Providence of Fire, the Staveley 1
Radiance Valente 1
Radiomen Lerman 1
Raising Caine Gannon 5
Retrieval Artist series Rusch 1
Rising, the Tregillis 1
Ronin Games Harmon 4
Root of Unity Huang 1
Saint Odd Koontz 1
Saturn Run Sandford/Ctein 6
Sceptre of Morgulan, the Ryan 1
Seveneves Stephenson 15
Shadows of Self Sanderson 1
Shepherd’s Crown, the Pratchett 3
Shrivers: The Substrate War 3 Kinnison 1
Signal to Noise Moreno-Garcia 1
Skull of Oghren Vainio 1
Skull Throne, the Brett 1
Somewither Wright 23
Son of the Black Sword, the Correia 11
Sorcerer to the Crown Cho 4
Sousmission Houlledeq 1
Straits of Hell Anderson 1
Strands of Sorrow Ringo 8
Sword of Arelion Green 1
Torchship Gallagher 3
Traitor Baru Cormorant, the Dickinson 2
Twice and Future Caeser: A Novel of the USS Merrimack Meluch 1
Uprooted Novik 19
Vermillion Tanzer 2
Vorrh, the Catling 1
War Dogs Bear 1
Watchmaker of Filigree Street, the Pulley 1
Water Knife, the Bacigalupi 1
Welcome to Night Vale Cranor/Fink 1
Werewolf Cop Klavan 2
Whispering Swarm, the Moorcock 1
Wolf by Wolf Graudin 1
Yaqteenya, the Old World Bahjatt 1
Zero World Hough 1

 

ETA (3/9/2016): Unranked, “recommendation list-like” version.  (Alphabetical by title)

TITLE AUTHOR(S) NOMINATIONS
1636: The Cardinal Virtues Flint/Hunt 3
Aeronaut’s Windlass, the Butcher 19
Alex Crow, the Smith 1
Alice Henry 1
Ancillary Mercy Leckie 7
Ancillary Sword Leckie 2
Angels of Attack Kloos 2
Anniversary Day Saga Rusch 2
Archangel Reed 2
Architect of Aeons Wright 1
Armada Kline 1
Ashes Born Lowell 1
Aurora Robinson 5
Autumn Republic, the McClellan 2
Awesome, the Darrows 1
Black Fleet Trilogy Dalzelle 2
Black Wolves Elliott 3
Blackbird Boykin 3
Bones and All De Angelis 2
Book of Lost Doors, the Burnett 1
Borrowed Man, A Wolfe 1
Buried Giant, the Ishiguro 1
Byrony and Roses Kingfisher 1
Call To Arms, A Zahn/Pope/Weber 2
Castaway Planet Spoor/Flint 1
Cat at Bay, A Boykin 1
Chaplewood Priest 1
Children of Time Tchaikovsky 2
Cinder Spires, the Butcher 1
Clockwork Lives Anderson 1
Collisions of the Damned Young 2
Culmanic Parts Sutcliffe 1
Cunning Blood Duntemann 1
Dark Forest, the Liu 3
Dark Intelligence Asher 1
Dark Orbit Gilman 1
Dark Tide Rising Series Ringo 4
Darker Shade of Magic, A Schwab 2
Desert and the Blade, the Stirling 6
Devil’s Only Friend, the Wells 5
Dinosaur Lords Milan 1
Discworld Series Pratchett 4
Distopia Kroese 2
Dragon Thief Swann 2
Dread Wyrm, the Cameron 1
Echopes of Apollo Thompson 1
Edge of Dark Cooper 1
Fifth Season, the Jemsin 8
Firefight Sanderson 4
Flex Steinmetz 1
Fool’s Quest Hobb 3
Foxglove Summer Aaronovitch 2
Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits Wong 2
Gatefather Card 1
Gentleman Joe and the Red Queen Bujold 1
Golden Son Brown 5
Grace of Kings Liu 1
Greek Key Spangler 1
Half a War Abercrombie 1
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality Yudlowsky 5
Hell’s Foundation Quiver Weber 4
Her Brother’s Keeper Kupari 2
Hidden Masters of Marandur and the Assassins of Altis Campbell 1
Honor At Stake Finn 22
House of Shattered Wings, the de Bodard 2
Illuminae Kaufman 1
Invisiblew Library, the Cogman 1
Just City, the Walton 7
Karen Memory Bear 1
Knight’s Shadow de Castelle 1
Last Song Before Night Myer1 1
Less Than Hero Browne 1
Liar’s Key, the Lawrence 1
Library at Mount Char, the Hawkins 2
Life and Death Meyer 1
Long Time Until Now, A Williamson 16
Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet Chambers 1
Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Leviathan Campbell 1
Mechanical, the Tregellis 2
Mind Over All Fabian 1
Morte Repino 1
Nemesis Games Corey 3
Net of Dawn and Bones, A Chancy 4
Nethereal Neimeier 13
Oncoming Storm, the Nuttall 1
One Year After Forstchen 1
Oracle West 1
Originator Shepherd 1
Pact Wildbow 1
Philosopher Kings, the Walton 1
Predator One Mayberry 1
Providence of Fire, the Staveley 1
Radiance Valente 1
Radiomen Lerman 1
Raising Caine Gannon 5
Retrieval Artist series Rusch 1
Rising, the Tregillis 1
Ronin Games Harmon 4
Root of Unity Huang 1
Saint Odd Koontz 1
Saturn Run Sandford/Ctein 6
Sceptre of Morgulan, the Ryan 1
Seveneves Stephenson 15
Shadows of Self Sanderson 1
Shepherd’s Crown, the Pratchett 3
Shrivers: The Substrate War 3 Kinnison 1
Signal to Noise Moreno-Garcia 1
Skull of Oghren Vainio 1
Skull Throne, the Brett 1
Somewither Wright 23
Son of the Black Sword, the Correia 11
Sorcerer to the Crown Cho 4
Sousmission Houlledeq 1
Straits of Hell Anderson 1
Strands of Sorrow Ringo 8
Succession of Bad Days, A Saunders 1
Sword of Arelion Green 1
Torchship Gallagher 3
Traitor Baru Cormorant, the Dickinson 2
Twice and Future Caeser: A Novel of the USS Merrimack Meluch 1
Uprooted Novik 19
Vermillion Tanzer 2
Vorrh, the Catling 1
War Dogs Bear 1
Watchmaker of Filigree Street, the Pulley 1
Water Knife, the Bacigalupi 1
Welcome to Night Vale Cranor/Fink 1
Werewolf Cop Klavan 2
Whispering Swarm, the Moorcock 1
Wolf by Wolf Graudin 1
Yaqteenya, the Old World Bahjatt 1
Zero World Hough 1

14 thoughts on "Puppy See, Puppy Do-Do"

  1. stevedavidson says:

    Tasha: at your request I’m adding that version of the table to the post.

    1. Tasha Turner says:

      Thanks. Maybe it will help some people see the difference. I think the animosity would go way down on a list looking like the 2nd.

      From your post 7 levels of recommending:
      1. First list is R7
      2. Second list is R4

      That’s a pretty big jump. Would you agree with my reclassification? To make it really help the list should be compiled as suggestions are made and links to the post with the list should be shared regularly 1-3 months before nominations end.

  2. stevedavidson says:

    Tasha: I pretty well explained the methodology – but don’t mind people pointing out things and/or providing additional information.

    Of course, none of this would be necessary or even interesting to do if the slate had been a recommendation list: months ago people could have started reading recommendations that interested them.

    What you say is true but this wasn’t a win/lose situation: I took a few minutes to demonstrate that the Fannish thing to do is pitch in and help out; that information such as this should be freely shared without attached bias; to get an indication of where things might be going after March; that impatient individuals (or those who actually like to read the things they might nominate) could do for themselves without having to organize a political party to do so; to illustrate some points; to satisfy curiosity; to…….

    1. Tasha Turner says:

      I would have left the ranking off, put the list in alphabetical order, still included the column with how many recommend. That would show how you could take what they were creating and turn it into a recommendation list as many clubs and organizations do this.

      People participating on the SP4 website have been able to read recommended books. We don’t know how many lurkers have been on the site reading but not commenting.

      SP4 Website stats of interest from google analytics and WordPress separately:
      1. Number of unique visitors & # return visitors
      2. Number of pages visited by typical visitor
      3. Length of time for typical page visited
      4. Top 10 pages visited & their stats (# unique visitors, average length of visit, # return visitors)

  3. Tasha Turner says:

    No “good dead” goes unpunished. I see your being critiqued for compiling the entries exactly as they were made instead of cleaning them up. As well as for the items on the list. The comments on File 770 were to be expected. Some days you can’t win.

  4. Rat Seal says:

    Ringo’s Strands of Sorrow and Ringo’s Dark Tide series is really the same entry since he only released on eligible work in that universe this year – which is SoS – yielding 12 votes total.

    1. Dex says:

      I’m also not real sure that John would accept a nomination.

      1. Rat Seal says:

        He has been nominated before. However, since he belongs to a Hugo-outgroup, he would never win a Hugo. He will, however, continue to merrily sell scads of books.

        Quick nod to the compiler, Steve D., for the early list of named recommendations and their votes.

        1. Dex says:

          Basically, Kate’s going to have the “official” one compiled in the next day or so.

          Re: scads of books, I picked up the anthology he edited in EARC form, Friday.

          John has in recent years said a few rude things about WorldCon. Likewise, MadMike voted Noah Ward on every nomination last summer, including his own.

          1. stevedavidson says:

            Dex, saying rude things about Worldcon will not and can not affect how nominations for his works are handled.

            RE the above “Hugo ‘outgroup'”; believe what you want, but there ain’t no such thing. There are works that a majority settle on, eventually, and there are works that they don’t.

            Continuing to view this process as a game of high school clicks does no one any good service.

          2. Dex says:

            It’s a hint as to how John might react to being nominated. Larry Correia and Brad Torgerson, for example, have said that they will never accept another Hugo nomination.

            I asked MadMike about nominating “A Long Time Until Now”. He replied, “My reaction will depend on Worldcon’s, if it happens.” He did vote Noah on his entire ballot last year.

        2. stevedavidson says:

          Rat Seal,

          sales do not impact nor should they have any bearing whatsoever on the awards, nomination considerations or even discussion on the subject.

  5. Dex says:

    “Ancillary Sword” isn’t eligible. It was nominated, and didn’t go anywhere, last year, mainly because it stunk. As it turns out, it was a case of Two Towers Syndrome — middle volume of a trilogy frequently has a lot of side-story and little action.

    “Ancillary Mercy” is eligible. While Leckie did manage to pull out a credible ending for the trilogy, there’s a bunch of stuff that I’d put higher on the list.

Leave a Reply